Why This Solopreneur Refuses to Scale (And You Might Want To Also)

Can you build a successful business across multiple countries without a full-time team and without burning out? According to Francesca Ciucci, a fractional marketing leader who has done exactly that across eight countries, the answer is yes, and it starts with rejecting the idea that scaling is the only path to success.

In this episode of The Life First Solopreneur, Francesca joins Carly Ries and Joe Rando to share how she designed a business that supports her lifestyle rather than consuming it.

What Does It Mean to Be a Life First Solopreneur?

A life first solopreneur builds a business around the life they want to live, rather than sacrificing their life to grow a business. Francesca explains that there is no single framework for success. For her, that meant working four days a week, keeping a small roster of clients, and avoiding the pressure to become an agency with a full-time team.

Why Choose Not to Scale?

Francesca optimizes for time, freedom, and alignment rather than growth for its own sake. She caps the number of clients she takes on, prices her services based on the actual hours required, and does a yearly check-in to make sure her business still fits her life. Scaling, she explains, often requires people management and structures that would pull her away from the freedom she values most.

How Do You Set Boundaries as a Solopreneur?

Francesca shares several practical systems for protecting her time and energy, including setting clear office hours, being upfront with clients about her availability, capping her client load to avoid burnout, using time blocking with dedicated admin days, and removing digital distractions when doing deep work. Her psychology background reinforces why these boundaries matter for mental health and long-term sustainability.

What Is the Dark Side of the Laptop Lifestyle?

While the digital nomad lifestyle looks glamorous, Francesca describes two hidden challenges. The first is the constant mental pressure of running your own business, where every setback feels personal. The second is the loneliness of starting over in a new place every few months, which makes community and deeper connections harder to build.

The Most Important Advice for Solopreneurs

Francesca's lasting advice is simple but powerful. Be kind to yourself. Solopreneurs tend to be their own harshest critics, and giving yourself space to fail, change, and grow is what makes the journey sustainable.

Key Takeaways

• Success does not require scaling. Design a business that fits your life.
• Boundaries protect both your mental health and your business.
• Community is essential for combating the isolation of solopreneurship.
• The laptop lifestyle has hidden challenges worth preparing for.
• Being kind to yourself is a strategy, not a luxury.

Connect with Francesca at francescaciucci.com and on LinkedIn.

Subscribe to The Life-First Solopreneur on your favorite podcast platform and leave a five-star review to help us reach more life-first solopreneurs.

Episode Transcript

Carly Ries: What if building your business didn't mean sacrificing your life? On this episode, Joe and I sit down with Francesca Ciucci, a marketing strategist who's built a thriving business across eight countries without a full time team, without burning out, and without ever losing sight of what actually matters. We get into why scaling isn't the only success story, how to set boundaries that protect your sanity, the dark side of the laptop lifestyle nobody talks about, and the one piece of advice that might change how you treat yourself as a solopreneur. So whether you're just starting out or deep into the journey, this one is packed with wisdom, honesty, and a whole lot of heart. You're listening to the Life First Solopreneur, the podcast for those in pursuit of a life first business.

I'm Carly Ries, and my cohost, Joe Rando, and I spend every episode with solopreneurs who are proving there's a better way to run a one person business and experts who are helping make it happen. We like to say life first, then business. So let's get right to it. Francesca, so a few months ago, we rebranded from the Aspiring Solopreneur to the Life-First Solopreneur because many people we were talking to, they were so interested in creating a business that doesn't take over their life, but one that supports the lifestyle that they want to live.

We get one life to live. Why spend it in front of your computer in a cold office all day every day? And so the more and more we saw that, we're like, we need to pivot to that. Joe and I try to live that as well. then Francesca Ciucci enters our lives and everything that you're doing just screams life first business.

And we were so excited when we were gonna have you on this show. But before we get into anything, because today's topic really is how to live that, practice what you preach and actually live that lifestyle. So before we get into it though, you travel all the time with your business. You are from Italy but you live in Canada. You're all over the place.

And rightfully so. And it's by design. So of the eight countries you've lived in, which one do you still catch yourself missing at random moments like standing in line at a grocery store?

Francesca Ciucci: So that's such a good question because they are all so different as well. I find sometimes it's just like a smile brings me back, you know, one of those. But if I had to average it out, probably Italy is the one that comes back more and more. There's just some sort of obvious connection as I'm Italian, and so sometimes it's just you remember like, oh, it's so nice. Like, the bars and that aperitivo.

So what I do is actually sometimes I just export some of that stuff.

So now I and all my friends have aperitivo. They all know what it is, the spirits, all of that. So, yeah, when I feel more nostalgia, I guess, I just go into that mode. But, yeah, I think Italy overall wins, but sometimes I have, moments from Holland, from England, from Ireland, Germany.

Carly Ries: do the smells bring you back? I feel like for me, if I catch a whiff of something, I'm like, oh, because I lived in Spain for a little bit. I get, like, immediately transported back to Spain more than anything else.

Joe Rando: Smells are the deepest rooted scents. it gets right to the memory.

Carly Ries: Know what's so funny? And Francesca, this won't mean anything to you. But, Joe, I had my daughter's annual pediatrician physical this morning. I walked in and the smell was Kinko's. Like do you remember the Kinko's FedEx smell?

I mean, haven't been there in what, twenty five years? I don't know how long Kinko's has been gone for. But I walked in and I was immediately transported to my mom , like going on an errand with her. And I was like, that's so weird. That was from twenty five years ago.

So, yeah. Anyway, not as exciting. It does bring you back. Well, why don't I bring us to the present? so speaking of all these countries, you've built a global business across, like I said, eight countries without a full time team.

And maybe not a lot in our audience, but there may be traditional founders who call that a scaling failure. It's because you don't have a team. Why do you call it the point?

Francesca Ciucci: So I'm a big advocate for there are different ways to do business. There are different ways to develop your own career, right? I'm very much against the concept of there is one framework, there is one way to go about things. And I think it goes back to how random I guess my life and my career has been, So for me, the point was never, just alignment with my life.

So to your point, I'm somebody who really craves freedom mobility wise but also, time wise. And I think as you age, you want that more and more. You want to be able to spend time with your loved ones. Carpe diem has always been my motto, so really live the moment. I found myself several times to not live in the moment because you're thinking like everybody was building. I remember when I first started, everything was like an agency. And so having these full time teams. And of course that works.

I have some clients who are agencies and that's great. That was what they wanted to do and how they envisioned it. For me, it was only like, I wanna have a few clients. I want to make it work with the services obviously and the revenue that this that my business brings. But my main thing was, I want to work four days a week.

I want to be able to have my own schedule. How do I get to that point without people managing? I think people forget how, you know, the more you expand, the more you also need certain structures that require also people management, which I do love to do, but I don't wanna do that as well for my business, if that makes sense. I've done it in corporate and it's great but it is a lot emotionally, energy, time, and so I didn't want that as a model for my own business.

And I guess you get to decide when it's your business. Right?

Carly Ries: You kind of already alluded to this, but if you're not optimizing for scale, are you optimizing for time? What are you optimizing for and what are some examples that you can give us that are concrete for our audience that they could be doing instead?

Francesca Ciucci: Yeah.

You know, I think this is a great time. I mean, it would be a lie to say that I haven't pivoted in my business. We love the word pivot, right, as entrepreneurs. And especially as a solopreneur, I guess you get to pivot more because it's you. For me specifically, what I've been optimizing and then there's a whole thing about the word optimizing that per se.

I don't think you need to optimize everything all the time. But for me the main thing I've been focusing on is actually the services. So it was more about, okay, how do I build services in a way that makes sense for me, time wise, to your point, revenue wise, and that brings me closer to what I actually want to do. So I think it's just, I guess, the background and the setup of the business.

I think that's what I've been optimizing, quote unquote. And the other side is by doing that, of course it affects your personal life too which obviously has been a big goal of mine. I have a lot of creative projects. I'm also an author. And so, I love my business. I don't wanna give up, marketing and what I do from a career perspective, but at the same time, I'm very multi hyphenate. So for me, it was like, it's important that I have space and energy and time for also these other aspects of who I am and the impact that I wanna get. And give people. so for me, it's been absolutely important to change like the structure and the way my business model works and hence the services or products around it in a way that it would feel aligned.

And I do a check-in every year. Every year, I do a check-in of like how this feels, where am I, where I wanna go, did anything change, you know? Spiritually, physically, life wise, did anything change?

So I think it's important to feel aligned because you're alone as a solopreneur, you are a way, alone as in you make all the decisions, right? It's always important to have a community which is why I love that you have this podcast, people need it. Solopreneurs like us need it, right? And so, I think check-in with yourself and see how that goes and optimize, I guess, the combination of life and work.

Carly Ries: So you've been saying behind the scenes, like you put the structure in place. The structure processes. What does that look like? I mean, there may be a person listening right now and they're like, oh, well, I don't wanna work Fridays, but how do I do that? what systems and processes do you have in place so that you can really have this type of business?

Francesca Ciucci: Yeah. So first of all, as somebody who also is a bit of ... I'm not a very IT, but I am a bit of a tech nerd, a bit tech savvy. I do love a good project management system. I do love good, organizational tools and stuff like that. So for me it was a) being upfront with clients.

It's like this is kind of how I work. The times I have, let's say call them office hours. This is when I'm available. But the other thing for me it's been, I've been setting up services in a way that the package, I know how much time. By now I know how much time it takes me to do x y z.

And so everything I offer is like it never gets to the full time. I always have that like I guess part time hours in my head. And then I kept the clients. So for example, for like smaller executional clients, I only take like one or two a month. And then I have usually a bigger client.

So I think it's about capping the services. It's easy to say yes, but when you're alone and you don't, again, you're not looking to become an agency with a full time team that can take on all the different clients and jobs, then you have to think about, what is your own capacity without you burning out. And so capping has been essential and then looking at, the pricing and the offer in a way that makes sense. Okay. You know it takes you maybe, I don't know, twenty hours a month for x amount of blogs, x amount I'm talking a bit marketing now, but like, these three tasks, you know that's gonna be twenty hours of your time, then okay. maybe you need only like those two, three clients. So putting those boundaries in are important and being very open in the communication and upfront that you're not a full time with clients either, right? Because I think sometimes that's hard because you're ambitious, you want all your clients to, love you and not think that you're not doing enough. But you're still one person, right? so just being upfront on what you can take versus what you can't take I think is important.

Carly Ries: Absolutely. Well, and you have a psychology degree, right? to me that seems to sit underneath all this. So how did that shape the boundaries and systems you built versus the hustle harder that so many solopreneurs, especially young solopreneurs kind of inherit from corporate?

Francesca Ciucci: Yeah. I think it's been a mix. I love psychology. I'm a brain nerd. Oh my god.

I would not change what I studied, not a bit. But I think it's always been a bit in me like, how as humans, how we work, how we think, you know, how to make our lives better from a mind mental health perspective. So that definitely was shaped that way. And I think a big thing for our generation and younger generations is burnout, right? There's a lot of anxiety burnout issues.

So I think just being exposed more about this, let's call them social, sociological, I guess social and psychological you know, issues and matters of our society. I think it just then is more top of mind. And it also kind of opened to me more of that meditation, loss, self awareness, you know, making sure you have time wellness wise for your own self as well. And I think by being exposed and seeing what the result is of not doing that, I think that's what keeps it very top of mind for me. And then the other side is not necessarily what I cited but just life.

You really see, you know, what happens. People around you, you can see yourself shifting when things are not going the right way, personally as well when you're on the verge of burning out. For example, so you realize it's important to have boundaries to not risk to lose yourself or lose what's important in life. Again, your point, we have one life.

Carly Ries: Well, so you may have just answered this, but you also talk about the dark side of laptop life. Is that what you're alluding to or is there something else that you're talking about in relation to that?

Francesca Ciucci: Yeah, no. I wasn't alluding necessarily to that specifically but yes, there is a dark side to everything. I think the laptop lifestyle brings in two dark sides, let's say. One, which is the one I was alluding now which is you know, having your own business, freelancer, business owner, whatever the kind of the model is. Which means that you constantly think I guess about work, like even more so.

And you're putting pressure on yourself constantly and things are personal in a way because it's your business, it's your baby, and I feel like you especially at the beginning, you just tend to take things more personally. You lose a client, oh my god, the end of the world, like cry, you know what I mean? Like you really evolve in that, it's a journey in itself and it's so different from corporate career. I mean, I'm coming from corporate, so I know , I've witnessed both, right?

And so I would say that's the dark side of entrepreneurship and that's why I say, I don't think necessarily every single person should become an entrepreneur. You know, every person in the world should be an entrepreneur. I don't think so. I think you need to want that and feel aligned with that because there's a learning curve, right? And the dark side of the laptop lifestyle , it's so hard.

So you already are going through this as an entrepreneur but then on top of it you are changing your environment every x amount of months. Time zones, right? Like there's a lot of loneliness, right? So you have the loneliness on having to deal with being a solopreneur and then you have the loneliness of starting from zero every time in different places, And now it's becoming a bit more a trend but for a long time there weren't a lot of so called you know digital nomads.

People doing that kind of lifestyle, right? And so it was even harder to find those communities. I feel now it kind of grew, there's a bit more community but it's hard. You start from zero every x amount of months and you want to have deeper connections, right? But it's hard to find that immediately when you keep on moving, right?

And so I think that's what the darker side of the laptop life is.

Joe Rando: I have a question on that, because I feel like there's another aspect that would affect me if I was ever lucky enough to be a digital nomad, which, I didn't have the chance when I was younger. Now I'm older and I have a dog, so I can't do it. Nobody does. Anyway. But the thing that I find is, when I work out of the house now, I have an office in the house. And if I'm not working, I'm not in the office. And I kinda deliberately stay out of the office when it's time not to work because it's calling me. It's there.

You get the desk. You got their screens. but if you're doing like a lot of the people we know that are digital nomads, they're living in relatively modest, hotel room or a small, Airbnb rental kind of thing or something, and that laptop is right there. I gotta believe, at least for me, I would be much more compelled to come home from dinner and go back in and start working again just because it's just sitting there calling out to me. And I'm I'm wondering, is that legit?

Francesca Ciucci: Oh yeah, yeah. I think just working remotely, working from home, even more so like when moving and you need to integrate in this new place, right? So you need to have that time away from work and so on. I think that's part of the boundaries that we were talking about, It's boundaries for your own mental health but part of it is also that.

I think you need to be as a solopreneur and then even more so solopreneur who's also a nomad, You need to be so much stricter with yourself with those boundaries, which also means I'm not working now. Right? sometimes I'm like, maybe I should have two computers, you know. I remember being like, maybe we should have two computers and separated. I do that from the phone of course, but sometimes I'm like maybe I should because you know I also write and that's all in the same computer.

And so I do have some systems that I found work for me. For example, I'm a big, well in general I don't like a lot of tabs open. Gives me anxiety. My slight anxiety gets a bit triggered. But the other thing is because I can't focus otherwise and so I just remove everything. when I'm writing, I just remove everything else that isn't my word document.

You know what I mean? And so I feel people should do that. And then the other thing is when I close my laptop, like I'm a big time management blocker person. So I'm like, okay, this is my working time. This is how I divide my time amongst, clients for depending on the deliverable.

I always sit, Monday's a big admin day and then Friday I do another admin time again. And then I organize myself so that I become, stricter. I'm my own schedule, you have to be strict with that, to your point.

Carly Ries: You know what's funny? My open laptop has become my boundary. So I have two little ones at home And I try not to, do grocery, research or anything that's not work related on my laptop unless they're asleep. So that if they see my laptop up, that's, like, don't interrupt unless there's an emergency. And I try to go into another room or I can have childcare or whatever.

But if they see the laptop up during the day, it's their signal like, oh, she's on a meeting. She's this. Because I take calls from my kitchen or from my room or wherever because I am on a laptop, not a big monitor too. Much to Joe cringing over that.

Joe Rando: Three monitors. Almost.

Francesca Ciucci: Oh, yeah.

Carly Ries: Francesca, would you say that the isolation is the hardest part of being a solopreneur or what do you think is the hardest part?

Francesca Ciucci: I always say that being a solopreneur is probably the biggest personal development, self inflicted course you can have. I think isolation is a big one. I think there's a lot of overthinking that generally happens but then when it's also about the money that you make right on a month basis, on a year basis, I think it becomes extra , It weighs even more. It weighs extra, right? Because it's what do you like, what do you want to do, your day to day job and on top of it, your revenue. But there's so much that I think in general we tend to overthink just as human beings and so many ideas and so much shiny object syndrome. And it's where we destruct our own selves. So dealing with that alone, I think is definitely a hard part of being a solopreneur.

Hence why communities, especially at the beginning I would tell people who want to become freelancers, entrepreneurs and so on like, have some body. Right? Now you have AI and some people do use it for, hey, what should I do with my business? Like, sure that's great.

But having people with the experience , who went through that as human beings, that's completely something different. And I think at the beginning you need it. I know I did a lot of courses and even with my marketing and business, and corporate background, I still did it. Like it was a learning curve, right?

And sometimes you feel like you can't talk to people near you. They're like, oh this is cool but it's not the same as talking to somebody else who's also a solopreneur and then you kind of compare notes, right? Or you can kind of talk about things and you can really tell the other person is identifying with what you're going through and can help. So I think, yeah, to fight that isolation, it's been helpful to have such a digitalized world, I guess. It would be a bit harder if you could only go to, the one spot in your hometown.

Carly Ries: Yeah. Exactly. Well, I want to go back to the boundary setting really quick. When did you personally know that a habit or a belief about always be gone, like stopped serving you? Do you remember that moment where you realized it flipped and it was costing you more than it was serving you?

Francesca Ciucci: Yeah. so as a traveler, which I would say, it's a big part of who I am for sure. As a traveler, think like I've always been somebody who's, spontaneous. Always like, yes, let's do it. And I don't know, just up for things and then living I guess. And then I would say at the beginning with my business, the business would take in so much that I would be like, okay maybe I'm not gonna go out or I was really bad at my own boundaries you know, where I'm just constantly on the laptop. I would watch a movie and still check things for work. there was no distinction. I think it was like consuming so much of my mental capacity and time capacity.

And then I was like, no I don't want this, Or when I'm traveling I also want to do things especially because you're bringing your work with you as somebody who moves and it's great to be able to travel and work, but then you also wanna experience the place, you want to do all these things or you have family and friends to visit when I go back home. And so, yeah, it really clicked for me. I need to and this is why I also pivoted with how things were set up. like, there's a lot of time that goes into it and does it make sense?

Like what can I change so that I go back to being more present? I think ultimately that's what it goes back to, right? And realizing that your mind is always pressured with something else, somewhere else, and I didn't like it. And you know, in this moment, living life, travelers, spontaneous side was like, what's up with you? I don't recognize that of you.

Carly Ries: I had such a such a similar experience. I was a digital nomad with an RV, around the US for years. And there was one stint where we were trapped. he was my boyfriend at the time, now my husband. We're traveling around the country. People were like, oh my gosh.

You guys are so cool. But I never saw really saw it, except for the weekends, outside the RV walls because I was working sun up to sundown and just was missing the coolest thing we were ever doing. And I remember being home, and my brother was in junior high at the time, I think. And he was like, isn't it weird how Carly's always here, but she's never here? Like, I was always physically there, but I always had my laptop up or doing something.

And this was over a decade ago. And I was like, never again. I don't want that to be my reputation where I'm physically there, but never mentally there. And it was just such a light bulb switch. It's crazy

Joe Rando: The kids appreciate it.

Carly Ries: Yes. My brother had to be the test dummy so that my kids could avoid that.

Joe Rando: I Won't tell him you called him a dummy.

Carly Ries: I'll say that to his face.

Francesca Ciucci: Of course. That's what siblings do. Actually love that you brought that up. like, it is people around you, and I think it actually ties back to the other question you had, which is what is also difficult as solopreneur. I think the difficulty as you're building, as you're at the beginning of your business is differentiating where, you're not being yourself and like you need to not be always, on and hustle hustle hustle versus, and people who are healthy for you actually supporting you in this space versus the more toxic one where it's just making you feel guilty that you're doing this thing. I remember having moments where it's like, oh my god, am I just a terrible person? You know, and then you realize, no, wait a second. And I think that distinction of following your gut of no, this is, you know, your brother's feedback. That's was good feedback.

That was healthy. That was really like, the wake up call. Same with me. I had the right wake up call.

But then I think, and I've heard this from other, solopreneurs as well where there's also the toxic commentary around it, where it's just creating that guilt tripping sort of situation because most of the times, it's simply they don't understand, the phase that you're in most of the time. And so I've heard of people giving up on it because of certain commentaries and then I think that's actually really hard as a solopreneur if you don't have people to go to and kind of get that outsider point of view on the situation, I think it can yeah, It can be unpleasant. And it's usually happening in the beginning of your business, not when you're set up.

Absolutely. Okay.

Carly Ries: So I have another boundary question. Because I've heard you say you don't need more confidence. You need higher standards for what you participate in, which I think that's so well put and I haven't heard that before. So what is the thing you stop saying yes to once you believed that quote?

Francesca Ciucci: Yeah. So first of all, I think just in general, what I say yes to from projects, clients perspective, right? I definitely had a period where I was just saying yes to everything and like, didn't fully filter it and that was not great. It wasn't the way to go for it.

And the other part is also even with some other sides of me, you know, like creative projects, my speaking side. this was at the beginning, I said yes to so many things. Also even like paid speaking or paid whatever at the beginning because I thought this must be the way to go about the brand. Like I'm new.

And then I realized actually you know what, no. it's something I say no to now. I'm like nope, I am not gonna do this right now because I don't think that's right. I used to have a podcast ages ago. And you know, it was just like a platform.

And so, I don't know. it's weird. I got to that point where I'm like, no, where I put my money, where I put my time and my energy, I think I became stricter with it. And then the other part is, I've also always been very social, like very, you know, yes, let's go. And and I think now I've been good at just being like, no, wait a second.

I'm just gonna stay home. I'm just, gonna take time for myself. I need to reset. And I think I've been better at not having FOMO. Where I'm like, I'm loving this.

I'm just doing absolutely nothing with my time. And because I just needed it because I've been, like, really busy and I just do nothing and I'm okay with it.

Joe Rando: It's called Jomo.

Francesca Ciucci: Jomo. ??

Joe Rando: Joy of missing out.

Francesca Ciucci: Yeah. So I think those three areas of my life I've been better at saying no. And I think it comes a bit with age. I'm in my thirties now. And really, time is so precious.

What you do with your time is like the one thing you don't get back and what you do with it is the most important thing. And so you start to reevaluate what really matters, right? to me what really matters is my loved ones. My wellness.

So for me, going working out, it's me time, literally me time. I always try to you know, I'm not social when I go working out because I just wanna work out. It's to take off the stress. I love dancing, I love writing, right? this is what I want to do with my time, outside of work.

And so that must take priority. Like if, I want to be a good daughter, a good sister, a good girlfriend, and all of these things. And so it really, I think, puts things into perspective of why you want to say yes and what you want to say no to.

Carly Ries: Love love love that wisdom. So Francesca, we have done nearly 350 episodes, I think. I'm not looking at our toggle right now. But we have always asked our guests what their favorite quote about success is, and you are the first guest that we have changed that. Because success like, it means something different now to everybody.

And we were like, now we need to end with just the lasting piece of advice you have for Life-First solopreneurs. And so you're gonna be our first guest to answer that final question. What is your lasting piece of advice for a Life-First solopreneur?

Francesca Ciucci: Oh my god. No pressure, no pressure. I think be kind to yourself. It's actually something, it just came up because I've recently said this to a couple of my friends who are entering a new chapter of their life. I think one big thing about being a solopreneur is we're so critical of ourselves. And it really takes a toll on you. so sometimes it's about giving yourself space to be, giving yourself space to fail, giving yourself space to change. And as long as you are kind to yourself in that process, you'll be able to do anything and survive anything that the solopreneur life will throw at you because it will throw at you a lot of random stuff, right? But if you're not the first person to be kind to yourself, and have that certainty that there's someone, supporting you that way, I think it makes the journey a bit harder.

Especially as everybody has different setups and support systems.

Joe Rando: Can I second that one? Because if it were a good idea to punish yourself for every mistake you've made, my hair is gray because of all those mistakes. But, you know, I forgive myself and I move on. And, overall, it works out just like you said. You know, you can make a ton of mistakes, but if you learn from them and move forward in a better direction, eventually, you get to where you're trying to go.

So I just want to second that one because I think we do tend to be hard on ourselves, and I've learned to give myself a little grace.

Carly Ries: Over the weekend, I had a documented mistake. We found my first gray hair.

Joe Rando: you found your first gray hair.

Carly Ries: Yeah. So now it's official. I made mistakes. Who knew?

Joe Rando: You've got two little kids, a dog, and bears in your backyard.

Carly Ries: Well you said you Your gray hair was from all the mistakes you made. So now I have a documented mistake with my one strand of gray hair.

Joe Rando: Fair enough. Use my logic against me. Fair enough.

Carly Ries: And there you go. Well Francesca, where can people learn more about you, your business, everything? send us to the links.

Francesca Ciucci: Yeah. For sure. I have a website www.francescaciucci.com. And then my LinkedIn as well, if you're in the career path. I always love for people to connect and especially if you're at the beginning of your journey, I'm more than happy to share one ear to, listen to and talk to. I'm very very excited to connect with everybody.

Carly Ries: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today. And listeners, as always, thank you so much for tuning in. Please subscribe to our show on any podcast platform including YouTube, especially YouTube actually. We're trying to grow that even more than it is right now.

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